What Are You Preserving?

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 5:54 am

Oh I should also add that you should get a funnel, for bottling. It's so much easier. Any old funnel. I have a shitty aluminum one I got for a dime out of some weird odds n' ends box at a county fair or something. I use it constantly. FUNNEL

astral hellion · Post by **astral hellion** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:11 am

[mention]infopetal[/mention] I am in NYC & have a plethora of kombucha mothers bc I save my extras in case of calamity (moldy batch, fruit fly larvae infestation, Kahm yeast disaster, etc.)
I would be happy to set you up!
[mention]ritchey[/mention] your instructions are so thorough! I am MUCH more laissez faire & anti-authoritarian about the whole thing & still very happy with my results — i.e. I make mine with Earl Grey & other tea flavors, I never do second fermentation, I don’t have a spigot & just pour off the top when I’m tasting it — it’s all fine. TBQH, once it’s done I don’t often even bother to refrigerate it, I just pour myself glasses from my big gallon jar until it’s almost gone, adding ice if I need it, then I make more.

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:44 am

YAYYYY I love this! Wow, I thought "no Earl Grey/flavors" was SUCH a strict rule. How cool.

I love the idea of just drinking it straight from the vessel!!!!! This is very liberating. Maybe I should just bail on the whole attempt at greater fizz--who cares

astral hellion · Post by **astral hellion** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 7:52 am

Yeah, some of my batches are fizzier than others, but I find that if I’ve added enough sugar I get a pretty good fizz with a straight-from-the-jar pour! I also never measure my sugar, just dump it into the jar until there is a layer on the bottom that looks like “enough.” I go by taste — it should taste like a sweet tea ordered in the Deep South — so I’m sure some batches are a bit sweeter than others.
I once tried to teach an extremely uptight boyfriend how to make kombucha & he could NOT hang with my anarchical style.
NO GODS, NO MASTERS

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:25 am

hahaha I LOVE IT
I am going to loosen up with it...starting TODAY

freddy · Post by **freddy** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:12 pm

I'm a lightweight when it comes to fermentation - my preserving consists of compulsive jam-making and quick pickling. But I'm really working down the reserves here; I think I only have like 35 jars of jam/jelly, and maybe a dozen of chutney and pickles. (Compared to years when I easily have 100+ jars in the pantry.) I know that the POINT is to eat them, but it makes me feel secure to HAVE them, and watching the backstock dwindle is making me low-grade bummed. #JarHoarding

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Sat May 02, 2020 1:59 am

m o l l y wrote: ↑Sat Apr 18, 2020 10:31 am UPDATE: Have quit conditioner since this post and have only used like a quarter sized bloop of sesame oil in the palm of my hand rubbed into towel dried hair for last howevermany hair washes (3 or 4?). Feels pretty ok! I will continue and report back any surprising progress.

UPDATE: I am still only washing my hair with a bar and blooping it with sesame oil afterward. I did what [mention]RCH[/mention] suggested and did a cider vinegar rinse a couple of washes ago, which felt great and wild and free! My hair was like a shiney ploofy princess cotton candy ("sugar spiders" for you Dutch curious out there) dream scene. It feels super normal now. I officially do not miss conditioner anymore; the greasy feeling vibe is gone. I do often need to wash my hair twice when I shower but that might be due to the general lack of hair washing going on these days? Or because my shampoo is basically a bar of green clay? Anyway, I will stop returning to this experiment thread. You have heard enough about my hair bars and bloops. I am officially uncomfortable about auditioning hair care into a void. I have hair, good bye.

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Sat May 02, 2020 3:44 am

I have not heard enough and want to continue hearing more!!
I am still not happy with my hair situation. My hair is so dry no matter what I do! I use the maximum conditioning conditioner plus extra argan oil and it's still a big dry blob. Maybe the vinegar rinse will help me too.

I'm very happy for you. Sesame oil! Do you rub it through all the hair or just kind of smooth it over the top? Just on the tips? Or what?

Also [mention]astral hellion[/mention] I started a new Buch batch yesterday and felt so freed by your description of your approach. I just dumped sweet tea in and didn't bother with my usual procedures. I plan to drink it straight from the spigot. Will report back but I am feeling great

yourfriendclaire · Post by **yourfriendclaire** » Sat May 02, 2020 8:36 am

I have been out of shampoo since the dawn of quar and have just been riding it out with rinses and the occasional application of conditioner. My hair is...fine? It’s not even greasy. I’m gonna try the apple cider vinegar thing because I love how versatile that stuff is.

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Sat May 02, 2020 8:42 am

Claire when I had short hair I never washed. I went like 8 years without one single shampoo. It was completely fine. Many different people confirmed that it didn't smell weird or anything either. I really think short vs. long is a whole different world!!!! Isn't it fun! Maybe I should chop mine off again

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Sat May 02, 2020 8:47 am

It's a game changer. Turns out my hair care routine is salad dressing. That water here is so hard that a coffee pot turns white after a single use, so that's probably the issue...
[mention]ritchey[/mention] seseme oil is super light. Just soaks right in. One lil bloop on hand. Rub that into towel dried hair. Oops, I talked about my hair again.

infopetal · Post by **infopetal** » Sat May 02, 2020 8:54 am

[mention]ritchey[/mention]—this intro to buch was excellent! I had a hectic week so upon starting to read it Wednesday, I decided I should hold off on a close read until the weekend when I could really absorb. (although I did go ahead and put in an order right away for a scoby mother from etsy, so I have something to start with [mention]astral hellion[/mention] but if things go awry with her—as I expect they very well could—I will definitely hit you up for backup. whereabout in NYC are you?)

I'm going to start with a basic glass jug but will be working up to a spigot one. and it sounds like black tea is good to start with but my ~*~buch dream~*~ is to one day master a fizzy jasmine.

besides temperature, do either of you find it matters whether the brew is in a sunny or shady spot? I have a tiny studio apartment kitchen and the best place for it would be on my fridge but it would get blasted by the sun (although another quarantine project is to get a better shade situation).

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Sat May 02, 2020 9:00 am

I BELIEVE you are supposed to keep it out of the sun. BUT you could simply throw a towel over it!

astral hellion · Post by **astral hellion** » Sat May 02, 2020 1:27 pm

[mention]ritchey[/mention] congrats on your new chill buch life! I just poured one out (into a cup) in your honor & ‘twas fizzy indeed!

[mention]infopetal[/mention] I keep mine in a cabinet but have had also fine results on top of a sunny fridge with towel draped atop! Please let me know if you ever need a backup, I’m in Greenpoint so it’s NBD! I believe in your fizzy jaz dream!

alex · Post by **alex** » Mon May 04, 2020 8:09 pm

I love pickled things and at one point maybe 15ish years ago decided to try and make my own sauerkraut and pickles. In the process of reading up on pickling, I read a bunch about all the ways it can go wrong: mold, botulism, unsanitized jars, etc. Ever since then (and since the kraut I mad got all moldy and gross) I have been too nervous to try it again, don't trust myself, etc...it has even trickled, illogically, into other forms of home preserving like jams and jellies. Does anyone else worry about this, and if so, what do you do to assuage these concerns?

yourfriendclaire · Post by **yourfriendclaire** » Mon May 04, 2020 11:22 pm

Trust yourself! It’s pretty easy to tell if something has gone wrong with a fermentation project: the general rule of thumb is if the smell/taste seems weird in any way, just toss it out. Mold you can actually scoop off without any problem—the brine in kraut/pickles is anaerobic, so mold only forms on spots that aren’t fully submerged in the brine. You can start with a stronger (saltier) brine if you’re nervous! And just make sure you rinse out your jar with some boiling hot water and/or apple cider vinegar before you put anything in there.

yourfriendclaire · Post by **yourfriendclaire** » Mon May 04, 2020 11:33 pm

That being said, the word “botulism” floats through my consciousness 2-3 times a week

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Tue May 05, 2020 4:59 am

botulism can't grow in fermented foods! FUN FACT. It's not the right kind of chemical environment for it.

I'm under the impression that most bad things that can happen to ferments are actually not super harmful and/or are extremely obvious (like you're not going to "accidentally" eat a big thing of white fuzzy mold, are you? Of course not). Like Claire said--in my experience when something goes wrong with a ferment, boy, you KNOW. There is no ambiguity. It is disgusting, slimy, something you could not imagine eating. So you throw it out and say "goddamn it" and start over.

Part of the point of fermentation is that it's a preservative! That's why e.g. you can leave fermenting yogurt in a 100 degree environment for 24 hours and it comes out delicious and healthy whereas if you left a jug of milk out in 100 degree heat for that long it would spoil horribly.

Jams and jellies can't get botulism because there is too much sugar? Or acidity? I can't remember but I do remember learning that botulism is not a concern re: sugared preserved. The worst thing that can happen to jam is mold, which, again, you would notice when you opened the jar.

I also think vinegar-canned stuff is low- or no-risk for botulism, again the acidity issue.

I associate botulism with the kind of stuff you have to can using a pressure canner--low acid foods, like if you wanted to can green beans (not pickled in vinegar, just green beans in water) or corn or something.

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Tue May 05, 2020 5:31 am

This is a RELIEF!
Partly why I've never gotten into jams is all the sterilization and boiling of jars. I do not have faith nor enough room in my fridge for it all. Now, if I come across a giant box of withering plums for a buck, I will invest!

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Tue May 05, 2020 6:04 am

jam is so easy. You pretty much can't fuck it up. It is the easiest thing to start with, when learning to can. And it's so satisfying to go down in the basement and gloat over your jars. Just the other day I opened up a jar of blueberry preserves I canned in July, 2018, with blueberries from my own bush. Tastes great as hell.

The sterilizing/boiling is kind of tedious and confusing at first but you quickly get the hang of it. Also fun fact: you only have to pre-sterilized jars if you are going to be processing them for LESS than 10 minutes. If you're doing a long process, like for tomatoes or quart jars, you can just give your jars a normal wash beforehand. No muss no fuss!

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Tue May 05, 2020 6:06 am

oh huge canning tip that really transformed canning for me: I found the fiddliness of the canning tongs really stressful so I just bought giant silicone MITTS so I can just REACH DIRECTLY into the pot of boiling water with my hands. Game changer! Great investment generally; I use them constantly in a wide variety of scenarios.

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Tue May 05, 2020 6:13 am

Long process?

Gotta be honest. I still think this canning business is a long way off. I mean, basement?? I will continue to count on loving older Flemish women for gifted jams of "pruimen van de waterkant" and "gekruide krabappelgelei."

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Tue May 05, 2020 6:31 am

well you only need a basement if you're gonna try to go full Little House (e.g. I try to can all the tomatoes, salsa, jam, and pickles we will need for an entire year). If you just want to make a couple jams you could do it in an afternoon and stick 'em in a cabinet. But no pressure!!!!! You don't gotta do it if you don't wanna!

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Tue May 05, 2020 6:33 am

The idea of tomatoes is def seductive.

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Tue May 05, 2020 7:49 am

I love my canned tomatoes so much, they bring me so much pleasure. They are so good. I also love canning them. It takes forever and makes a huge huge mess and I just listen to 100 podcasts and get into a deep steamy zone in my hellish July kitchen. Great exercise

meadows · Post by **meadows** » Tue May 05, 2020 10:00 am

My kefir water is still not quite where it should be :/
It's too sweet and not fermenting enough! I'm going to keep fiddling with it until it works, trying different amounts and kinds of sugars.
I did drink some, flavored with raspberry and mint, and felt kinda satisfied with myself for getting halfway there.

freddy · Post by **freddy** » Tue May 05, 2020 12:21 pm

Botulism can't grow in an acidic environment (lower than 4.6 pH), so jams, quick pickles, and fermented foods should be fine. You DO need to add lemon juice to tomatoes to get them into the safe zone.

Where you need to be worried about botulism is if you're full on homesteader style putting up low-acid things like corn, green beans, beets (not pickled), etc. Then you need a pressure canner, because you need a temperature above 212 to kill the botulism toxin. I've always been unwilling to do that, so I stick with acidic preserving.

Botulism, unlike other types of spoilage, is not something you can perceive by looking/smelling. So one university extension recommends that you boil preserved low-acid foods for 10 minutes before serving even if you think the preserving was done properly.

More from the FDA here: https://www.cdc.gov/features/homecanning/index.html
More from WSU University Extension here: [urll]http://pubs.cahnrs.wsu.edu/publications/pubs/fs250e/[/url]
Everyone says to follow properly vetted/tested recipes for preserving (though I would personally only be more concerned about low-acid preserving). For example, those in the USDA Guide to Home Canning: https://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/publ ... _usda.html

alex · Post by **alex** » Tue May 05, 2020 12:31 pm

Thanks, everyone, for the encouraging stories and info! I am now thinking about what project I want to undertake to start climbing Mount Preservation. Maybe some "quick pickles". Who knows if/when I'll actually get to it..but even thinking about it and not instantly thinking about lockjaw and paralysis is progress.

freddy · Post by **freddy** » Tue May 05, 2020 12:37 pm

Here's a great recipe to start with, Alex: https://www.food.com/recipe/pickled-gre ... ans-182190

I've used it for cucumbers, green beans, and carrots, and they've all been great. I'm sure it would also be fine with beets and asparagus. You can put the resulting pickles up in a hot water bath if you want it to be shelf-stable (instructions not really included but I can find a guide if you want), but you can also just stick it in a jar in the fridge and it will keep for ... a long time. A year at least! Feel free to modify the seasonings however you see fit (e.g. leave out hot pepper flakes if you don't like a spicy pickle, sub fresh dill weed for dill seed, add more garlic, whatever). Use any vinegar you like (white, apple cider, wine) as long as it's a proper commercial, store-bought one (will say 5% acidity on it).

You'll notice that this 1 part vinegar : 1 part water is the most common brine concentration for quick pickles. Now you know you can basically make up your own recipes as long as you keep that ratio.

Anyone can do this! It's fast and delicious.

RCH · Post by **RCH** » Tue May 05, 2020 2:19 pm

After reading a few books about pickling, I tried my hand at it a couple times only to discover I had made rotting garbage. It shook me up so much I never tried it again. That was in 2010.

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Wed May 06, 2020 6:59 am

Ok so I was doing a restockage at my local organic shop and they had these sachets of all different ferments: milk kefir, water kefir, kombucha, yogurt, some weird pudding?... So I bought the water kefir. Trying to understand the instructions but it looks like the kefir "kernels" don't actually form? I don't know what I expected... It makes a like a foam you can skim off and use again, "up to 8 times"?? I don't know folks. Anyone?

Incidentally, I was able to invest in another 2.2 lb bag of dried mango slices, so we're good on that over here.

meadows · Post by **meadows** » Wed May 06, 2020 11:26 am

Whoa, I haven't encountered that version!
I got kefir grains, which rehydrate when you put them in water and become these gelatinous little pebbles.

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Wed May 06, 2020 11:51 am

I’m making grilled cheese and tomato soup tonight w fresh greenhouse toms from the farm and my own bread. Will be using garbage water!!

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Wed May 06, 2020 12:13 pm

Lucky!!!

willowowow · Post by **willowowow** » Wed May 06, 2020 12:26 pm

I used garbage water for a tomato/cannellini bean stew the other night, and though I worried the ginger might make for a strange flav, she graciously demurred and the appropriate tastes were spotlit. Last night we used the trash soup to cook some quinoa and goddamn the results were good!

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Wed May 06, 2020 12:28 pm

Wonderful news

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Sun May 10, 2020 8:29 am

My garbage is boilt! I had so much I couldn't fit it all in my biggest pot! A very leeky and fennely brew. It is going brighten my rices and lentils and beans and soups right up and generally lift my recipes several rungs in the garbage ladder. Officially!

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Sun May 10, 2020 8:45 am

hooray!

willowowow · Post by **willowowow** » Mon May 11, 2020 8:45 am

Mmm leeky fennely sounds so good.

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Mon May 11, 2020 9:42 am

Here’s something fun—I had milk that was starting to sour so I made “sour milk cake.”

2c flour
1c sugar
1t b soda
1t cinnamon
1/2 t cloves
1/2 t salt
*mix in big bowl

Whisk together:
1/2c veg oil
1c sour milk*
I threw an egg in buy recipe did not call for one

Add wet to dry and mix
Mix in 3/4c chopped nuts

Grease and flour a 9x9 baking pan (I used a cast iron skillet as I do for all baking), dump the batter in, cook in preheated 350 oven for 45 mins

*sour milk and spoiled milk aren’t the same—pasteurized milk spoils, raw milk sours. It’s like it starts fermenting basically. Don’t make this cake with spoiled (ie rotten, chunky, nasty) milk

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:01 am

Ooooh!!!!! I just had a slice and it is TO DIE FOR (TDF)

So fluffy and subtle and not too sweet! Would be a great breakfast bread. I used hazelnuts and it really worked. Dang

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:16 am

You could prob sub milk with a T of vin in! Looks like it would love a crumble too... I wonder if this rot cake could somehow join forces with that berry slab (I know, I know, trash water is a strong nay).

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am

Yes for sure if u don’t have actual soured milk just do normal w a T of vin or lem

m o l l y · Post by **m o l l y** » Tue May 12, 2020 1:06 pm

Just ate next level trash-water-polenta with a chunky eggplant ragu!

infopetal · Post by **infopetal** » Thu May 14, 2020 10:02 pm

update for [mention]ritchey[/mention] and [mention]astral hellion[/mention]: started my first ever booch brew Tuesday!! thank you for inspiring me. more updates to follow…

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Fri May 15, 2020 4:39 am

Yay! I just had my first glass straight from the siphon. It was great. I also moved the booch down to the basement and am interested to see if this helps my psychotic fruit fly situation this summer.

freddy · Post by **freddy** » Thu May 28, 2020 1:21 pm

I made my annual batch of Zuni Cafe zuccchini pickles today: https://food52.com/recipes/36398-zuni-c ... ni-pickles. Damn, they're awesome! Great on a burger, or in a grilled cheese with sharp cheddar.

infopetal · Post by **infopetal** » Sat May 30, 2020 5:54 pm

behold! a ginger-ful booch! [mention]ritchey[/mention] [mention]astral hellion[/mention]

: photo_2020-05-30 20.42.28.jpeg (105.32 KiB) Viewed 13936 times

I did manage to get some bubbles.

am finding it pretty tasty but a little on the sweet side. first fermentation was probably about 12 days, then have been taste tasting it through the second fermentation starting after about 3 days. how do I get it less sweet and more sour? is that just a matter of time?

ritchey · Post by **ritchey** » Sat May 30, 2020 7:29 pm

Congrats you did it!!!!

In my experience yes, more sour is a matter of time!

Huzzah

astral hellion · Post by **astral hellion** » Sun May 31, 2020 5:30 am

[mention]infopetal[/mention]
HUZZAH!!!
WELCOME TO THE CLUB!
I think that a longer initial fermentation will give you the sourness that you crave, but also remember that fermentation time will shorten as it gets hotter out (unless you somehow live in an apartment with air conditioning, which is not my NYC reality).
Once you have a few SCOBYs to play around with, I would also recommend some making smaller batches in quart sized mason jars — you get a faster ferment because it’s a smaller volume & you can really see how sour you want to get! Plus it isn’t the same kind of tragedy as having a whole gallon tip into “wow this is basically vinegar, yikes!” territory (though if that happens you can always just mix it with a less sour batch or treat it as a drinking vinegar).